Europe: Burkini War Continues

Just what I would expect from Enlightenment Mentality Europe: Over 2,000 Europeans have been MURDERED by jihadists since 9/11, and European politicians get tough and crack down on burkinis! [As if forcing Muslim women into bikinis = assimilation] Muruna = Islamic doctrine of deceit by temporary suspension of Islamic law to fool the infidel into thinking Muslims have assimilated, so he'll accept more.

Well one problem with the burqa is that's it's a sign of subservience of the female, also showing what a rotten religion Islam is. The only thing attached to it is that which is enjoyed by the men who are entitled to rape and beat their wife (as their sons may beat their mother), keep her away from all other men, and a dozen other horrors that I won't go into here. Note it's not the men who have to wear the stifling ugly burqa. They must be the most selfish people on the planet.

"...the plan is unlikely to succeed." indeed. who of us kufr sheep would want to risk going into the islamic lion's den? not i!

There's a simple way to handle this.

It's called mockery and shaming. The population should be left to figure this out. *I* for one think the garments are ludicrous, but who cares what *I* think? Let the population figure it out.

Why does the government have to get involved anyhow? Always the government has to insert itself into everything.

Why is the burkini so controversial in Western societies? At the risk of oversimplification, I believe the burkini has the same problem as other items of clothing worn by observant Muslim women. It symbolizes an ideology that oppresses women thereby depriving them of the universal human rights that Western societies value so highly. Anyone who claims to oppose misogyny needs to draw a line in the sand and speak out against the acceptance of the burkini and other female Muslim garments by Western democratic nations.

It's very odd, but I live in Israel, and I've never seen a burkini on an Israeli Arab woman. Both Israeli Arab and Jewish Orthodox women, however, cover up with a loose T-shirt over a one-piece bathing suit, and usually wear either a scarf or snood over their hair. No one seems to mind. It should be noted, however, that many beachs and pools have areas or hours for women-only swimming, because of religious sensitivities.

Let's face it -- the Burkini is nothing less than an ideological symbol. Who's kidding whom?

I wouldn't be honest if I say I am offended seeing a female on a beach with a bikini.

Bad men would harm women whether they wear bikinis or nun's habits. Look at how many women are raped who wear Burqas (with the excuse: She seduced me) -- it's not the clothing that makes men do the things they do, it's something seriously lacking. I don't see how entombing females in garments as a solution for the benefit of anything positive, when the underlying motive is entrenched in an ideology -- giving in to that "fashion statement" is effectively promoting the ideology. So, even if I were against bikinis, I would still prefer them to the alternative.

Of course modesty and good taste are good things; however, the times we live in as well as the conditioning of the inhabitants has some say in what's appropriate. It's not my call, for one, to run around telling people what to wear.

From a theological perspective many things are to be observed, yes; including the vulgarity of murder, and hate, and contempt for all humanity.
If anything needs a makeover, it's that!

"This puts Muslim women in a corner and tells them that they do not belong," The level of delusion being employed here, by defending the burqa/burkini/hijab/niqab/abaya etc etc is truly, astounding.

How can anyone with a straight face claim that Muslim women are being segregated, secluded and pushed into the corner - as punishment for wearing religious clothing that segregates them, secludes them and pushes them into the corner? Coverings that tell them that they do not belong?

The sheer breathtaking irony here, in demanding that Muslim women deserve the right to dress as they wish in the West - and then demanding that they are to cover up, hide their skin, hide their hair - all so that they don't sorely tempt the fragile men around them, who if shown too much skin and hair on display - will resort to a furious riot of rapery and assault. Because according to Islam, an uncovered woman who finds herself surrounded by Muslim males - is in a place she DOES NOT BELONG.

This is not an argument. It's a joke. They've taken the actual argument and completely, hypocritically turned it around to suit them, and it MAKES NO SENSE. If you are a Muslim from the Islamic world and wish to come to the West, then understand the rules still apply to you, like they apply to everyone else. Fit in, or stay away.

I have no issue with the burkini as a garment, unlike the hijab, burka, niqab, and so forth, which are definitely designed to be hideous, but wearing the head coverings of the burkini, which also make the woman look hideous is a psychologically abusive behavior, both self abusive in the case of the woman, and abusive in the case of children, who then see women as inferior to men that must be kept hidden, objectified in the extreme, and sexual entities who bear children and clean house only, and of no other intellectual, nor emotional benefit to humanity.

The physical-emotional bonds of children being damaged by these practices, both within the Muslim communities, as well as outside the Muslim communities, is growing more and more evident as these dress and grooming habits of Muslims becomes more prominent. Were the Hutterites and Mennonites more numerous in our own societies, doing similar things, our own people would be at as much risk of becoming psychopaths as they are by witnessing these forms of male domination. We need both sexes to be considered equal, both in value, power, and with regard to the well being of society. Any male dominance behavior is abuse and causes harm to the psychological and intellectual and emotional development of children.

The burkini is physically most dangerous to the women, for while they obtain protection from the sun's rays, they also discourage equality of the sexes necessary to the well being of our children and ultimately society, even without the Islamic political element, but they also risk overheating issues, whether it's just the head coverings, the burkas, the niqabs, etc, or the burkini. Being wet reduces some of these issues but those issues are still relevant and are evidence of self harming psychological reasoning errors.

Muslims often claim that intelligent reasoning is the best way to develop our own values and live accordingly but when serious, significant logic and reasoning errors like this one are present within their society, you can tell them a truth and they ignore it completely for it feels completely foreign, given their abuse-instilled strongly emotionally biased perspectives. It becomes necessary, sadly, to enforce a single standard to prevent logic and reasoning errors in future generations, rather than in trying to repair them in this one, so the "force" elements seen in their belief systems becomes our only go-tos to stop the future generations from being damaged by these intelligence errors.

I'm stating the obvious, I know. But, sadly, with the spread of Islam into every part of Western Culture, it needs to be stated.

#Sick.
Looking at that photo of a woman on the beach, dressed for Siberia connotes just one word: slave. Islam's oppression of more than half the population - merely because Mohammed viewed men as barbaric, spoiled children incapable of controlling themselves - is unacceptable.

Surely, no woman should have to bare her body but, surely, she should not have to cover every square inch of it either... because barbaric, out-of-control (Islamic) men will rape her if they should see an inch of her skin.

#Sick

It states that this particular burkini is designed for swimming. In viewing the photo of the woman in a burkini taking a selfie, I fail to understand how this attire is not conducive to drowning. It would seem that it is somewhat similar to a woman wearing a dress while swimming, and could get tangled up around the body while doing serious swimming or in deep water. We have bathings suits because it does not hamper the movements of the body.

I feel those defending a woman's right to wear Islamic religious garb in France and in the west are inconsistent and hypocritical unless they also defend the rights of women, including western women visiting, NOT to wear them and dress as they please in places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan etc.
I also find it ironic that Islamists want to force women to identify their religion in public, but men are allowed to blend in if they wish. Another example of sexism in Islamic practice.

French have a problem. The Burkini is not a "religious sign", it is designed for modesty. Jewish religious women have something similar to wear in the pool, which although it exposes a little more skin, is for modesty. It is a basic human right to choose one's own clothing, that right is taken away from prisoners. The fabric must be suitable for a pool. If the amount of fabric is a problem for the pool filters, that problem should be dealt with without violating human rights.

Co-opting Democracy in the Name of Multiculturalism

Regarding French President Macron's remark to Marine Le Pen about the burkini issue and how she is "dividing society" by accusing him of "defending the burkini," perhaps what is really dividing French society is how Islamic culture is displacing French culture by taking democracy hostage in the name of multiculturalism. For all appearances sake, this is a classic political tactic: once the camel gets its nose under the tent, the whole body follows.

Using accouterments such as the kind of clothing worn by people of a certain culture as the means to establish a new cultural norm is no different from the camel taking refuge and fully occupying another's habitation. If a fashionable trend begins, momentum is gained, and pretty soon it goes viral. Once that happens, perhaps it won't be too long before the whole society is indistinguishable from one cultural value meme, and even its voting power is co-opted by the transplanted culture.

All in the name of democracy and multiculturalism a power shift occurs, and a new regime is installed. When this happens, will traditional French culture become absorbed into the newly transplanted culture in the name of multiculturalism, or will those who wish to uphold traditional French values be "allowed" to do so, so long as they are subjugated to a section of France that is outside of Parisian city limits?

The whole ordeal seems so utterly surreal.

Remember the days when we didn't have a weekly problem with or about Muslims?

Wouldn't it be wonderful to use our tax money again for the sick & elderly and school & education to those that want & need it instead of throwing out buckets of money for unwilling Muslims and their "integration".

In a secular society nobody should be forced to know to what religion someone belongs to. It is a private matter. Only Muslims insist on being identified by their attire and it is the subjugation of women especially which causes so many problems and leads to Muslims remaining in segregated communities unwilling to mix with people of other faiths. The simple truth is that Muslims who wish to live according to Islamic laws and customs will never be able to adapt to western life style. Muslims in general are not of European origin and therefore it is up to them to adapt to Europe and not impose their religion on everyone else. When westerners visit Islamic states they are required to respect the culture. Thus in Europe this means no burqas, niqabs, veils, Islamic schools, sharia law, prayers in public etc etc. They should be required to live like everyone else. Until and unless Muslims join the 21st century there will be no social cohesion.

This unhygienic swimwear extends to men as well who wear their own underwear and shorts and thus pollute the swimming pools. In the pool I go to regularly, there are also examples of non-Muslim women wearing unsuitable clothing such as leggings, to such an extent that the pool has put up notices showing what is suitable and what is unsuitable swimwear. In other words, the so-called modest swimwear garments encourage the wearing of unhygienic clothing by non-Muslims as well.

Aldo Oumouden, yes "France is multicultural and banning the veil at this facility is an attack on the individual freedom of Muslims"... of course, burkini, head scarf and or veil are not dangerous to public or health and has nothing to do with freedom, it has to do with security, identification and recognition of the person or persons.

I don't understand the discussion regarding whether allowing the burkini should be allowed to take center stage in Europe. An adoptive country has the RIGHT to accept ONLY those who abide by its traditions. A list of prohibitions including burkini wearing, multiple marriages, verbal divorce, praying in the streets, taking off from work five times per day for prayer without the employer's permission, genital mutilation of females and arranging their teen- age marriages and other defined practices MUST be signed by the one who seeks to be accepted as a citizen. Citizenship is revoked for those who engage in these activities, engage in hate speech or incite violence against other citizens. Maintaining the identity of a group should NEVER be incompatible with a nation's pre-existing traditions.

I rarely advocate American solutions to Europeans, because they so often have found their own solutions to problems which are better for them, and perhaps better all around. But the insistence of many Europeans that everyone wear the same kind of clothes is not an effective way to promote social integration. It confuses social integration with conformity, unity with uniformity. We Americans accommodate a huge diversity of lifestyles and clothing, and, for the most part, we all get along just fine. The real obstacle to social integration are the ideology of the religious fundamentalists that call for the overthrow of secular government and the imposition of religious orthodox on everyone, whether they believe or not. That is what we should focus on condemning and legally restricting...not whether a woman chooses to wear a burkini or a bikini at the beach.

On the surface, the burkini is a matter of personal preference and if that is all that it is, then it is not my concern. Everyone has the right to be wrong, stupid and go to hell on their own bus. But, and this is the big but, it is being used to further political Islam and that is my objection. Plus if we are required to tolerate this in the west because of religious freedom, then why is the bikini not allowed in Sharia countries on the same grounds? It is hypocritical for anyone to accept anything in their own countries on the basis of religious freedoms then completely deny the opposite equivalent in their own countries. I feel that the concept of reciprocal right should be enforced in this, that you as a group or society can only realistically demand the rights that you are willing to grant to others in your own societies. On a more practical note, what if a lifeguard is endangered by trying to save someone who is weighed down with more fabric than she should be wearing. Will it be morally acceptable to refuse to save anyone you cannot save? We all know the stories about brides getting pulled down and drowned by their own wedding dresses if they try to get photographed wearing those in a body of water. The burkini is just short of wedding dress.

I would not complain about the burkini if in a live and let live world the people who object to this item of swimwear were tolerant of others who also wanted to wear what they wanted at the seaside or pool, but no we much respect their way of life while they tell us how to live ours and are willing to kill us to get their own way.

This has nada to do with religion. It's that for too many years, the Muslims get their way with anything and everything they continually complain about. So whenever anyone stands up to them in anything, it's the usual "Islamophobia." If they want to wear their burkinis, why not move to the Middle East? Everyone will be happier, especially the Europeans.

The countries most noticeable on this list are noticeable by their absence:

Israel: Where burqinis are commonly worn on the beach, to the dismay of nobody.

USA: Where nobody would think of making an issue of it.

Mature women who have been part of the feminist/equality battle over many years of their lives understandably can see how the burkini debate represents an interesting dilemma. On the one hand it's your business what you want to wear. Everybody accepts that. Even if, as demonstrated by the image of the woman taking a selfie, you look a total prat. It's your right to do so. But with the burkini being used as an obvious political tool it's difficult for women like myself to grasp why any other woman would want to sign up to their own visual subjugation. Because that's what it is and I'm sad to say that those women who are suckered into wearing these garments are either weak and submit easily to their respective peer pressure - though one could understand that fear may play a role - or are simply using the garment to purposefully undermine the collective traditions of the Western society they despise so much. Such women see these as 'protest' garments and a way of promoting their Islamist stance. It's sad that they have so little self-confidence that they sign up to the modern version of the chastity belt that the rest of womankind threw off several centuries ago.

I don't think controlling women for being excessively modest at the pool or beach is an effective advance against European Sharia. It is punishing women in a burkini as a symbol, just as many Muslim communities punish women for the symbolism of NOT wearing a hijab.

I live in the USA by a beach. I don't wear bikinis or even one piece swimsuits because I am modest, so I usually never swim. But this year I did because women are participating in surfing more, and skin cancer is a widespread problem. So some companies (thank you Lands End) sell shorts and long sleeve crew neck shirts made of swimsuit material (SPF proof, too). Now I am free to bodysurf and Kayak as vigorously as I want without losing my top or dig a wedgie out of my butt in public. I can go from the shore to a cafe or to jog without changing clothes. I am not forced into the bizzare ritual of pretending it's no big deal to walk around a boardwalk talking to people in my bra and underwear.

IF the burkini is made out of the proper material In order to pose no public hygiene or drowning risks, why force women to parade around ashamed in order to enjoy the water?

Totally agree with what a lot of places are doing in banning the "Burkini". It is a deliberate intimidation by Muslims to further their quest to achieve Sharia in as many Western countries as possible. The women doing this have either been promised a position of power in Islamic circles or are receiving preferential treatment for furthering the Islamic cause! Seeing the freedoms that all Western women enjoy, it's nonsense that Muslim women would want to turn their back on it. This is the idea of Muslim men, they still feel the need to keep total control of Muslim females, they are terrified that the new freedoms will lead to many turning their backs on radical Islam!

The health aspect is also important, Muslims have a habit of wearing their underwear beneath swimming costumes, even the men. And many of them don't shower before taking to the water. These are the people that call us Westerners, "dirty" and "pigs"!

More must be done to put an end to the creeping Sharia being forced upon us. I won't ever submit to Islam and I will break every single Sharia Law if it ever gets imposed, so suck on that!

There must be a determined effort to oppose everything that is not compatible with our culture and beliefs, our freedoms and our way of life. At no time should we have to keep silent, we must tell the politicians that something is not acceptable to us in the West, and they must be made to act on it, not just stand idly by while Muslims dictate what should be.

If all we have to worry about is what the Muslims wear, then we are all very lucky. Unfortunately, there is a lot more to worry about in today's world, and time is running out. Thank you Soeren Kern and Gatestone.

I don't get it? Why did the hotel owner have to close and clean the pool? It does sound like bigotry without an explanation if there is no explanation that fibers from the burkini clogged the pool filter or some reasonable explanation.
Are we equating Burkini's with wearing Nazi arm bands?
Are we empowering the Burkini by making its wear an issue.
Me, I've never understood fashion and it doesn't impress me, as long as no one is being told they have to wear a Burkini, cover their arms wear a head wrap etc. Telling a woman she has to wear an item of clothing that serves no function except to cover women like they are some heinous chimera is just as offensive as telling a woman she can't cover her body.
The problem is, how do we know it isn't the woman's choice? Isn't it more a matter of what the law is civil or sharia? Sharia is intolerant of non-Muslims nor representative of them and that is not an Islamophobic criticism and to claim it is; is bigotry.

This is another article that omits the main point about these religious costumes, which is that women and girls are being compelled by their communities to wear them. In England it is now commonplace to see tiny little girls, four or five years old, wearing veils that make all their hair invisible. The veil is intended to signal the modesty of the wearer. What need do tiny children have to send such messages? It should be illegal as it is indecent to make them do so. It may be that there are adult Muslim women who make a free choice to wear these things but while there remain many others who get beaten if they refuse to, then those who do possess free choice should be ashamed of themselves for exercising it in a way that adds to the oppression of others.